Why Analysis Matters — Things Aren’t Always What They Appear To Be

Posted @ 10:52 pm - Filed under Real Estate Investing, Retirement, Cash Flow, Retirement Income, Investment Lessons, Depreciation, Capital Growth, BawldGuy Axiom

Due to the nature of tonight’s topic, pictures will again be at my whim. I’m feeling quite random as it turns out. When I’m talkin’ ’bout numbers and basic analysis on-topic pictures just don’t cut it.

A post published here earlier this week generated an excellent comment by David Shafer.

The post discussed the differing results of 10% or 20% down payments.

Here’s David’s comment:

I argue with myself over which is better the 10% or 20% version. I think it is really individualized. But gotta comment that the 20% version is less costly in terms of lower mortgage rate and/or no mortgage insurance which is expensive now. And if you take that cash flow and put it into another investment, then you might just come out even with the 10% down option!

Cookies

Dave — I know what you mean, as I’ve done this particular analysis hundreds of times.

These days we’re seeing little or no difference in interest rates on the two loan LTV’s. Even if there was a .25% spread, if that kills the deal, then generally speaking the investor might not be a candidate for real estate at that time. ‘Course sometimes common sense dictates a particular deal just won’t work.

Let’s look at your suggestion though, which might be a logical alternative.

BawldGuy Axiom: One of the foundational factors in any solid analysis is understanding where the bar is set. Sometimes the analysis is what actually sets the bar. Either way, workin’ with a stealth bar will get you nowhere at impressive speeds.

At 5% annual appreciation, $210,000 over a five year holding period would grow the capital by $58,000.

There’s the bar.

Mercedes SLR McLaren

Your suggestion is a good one, and has been coming up in classes and seminars I’ve taught for the last 30 years, and with the same result. It sounds like a good idea, but makes sense only when there’s simply no choice left. Why? ‘Cuz it falls woefully short of comin’ out even. (Again, we’re in the context of the properties/prices used in the linked to post.)

If you can find a safe investment using only the cash flow from a 20% down real estate investment on a $210,000 property that would result in making up the loss of $58,000 over that same five year period, I’m all ears. :)

The annual cash flow would hafta be $7,800/yr with an annual yield of 20% to get to $58,000. The cash flow on these small properties when using 20% would be less than half that amount.

This is why when financially prudent, I typically advise clients to opt for the 10% down approach. As long as the cash reserves are generous, the payoff for the holding period is far and away the better return.

The investor using 10% down, beginning with $100-125,000 in capital, will, over the next 15-20 years, end up with a net worth roughly $1.5-2 Million more than the 20% down approach. In terms of retirement income, that comes out to roughly $7,500-10,000 a month more than the 20% down approach.

Aging Willie Mays

David’s suggestion should be used when there’s no other choice. That said, there’s still other ways to make use of your holding period cash flow, both before and after tax. I’m gonna have David himself address that topic next week. Letting cash flow sit and mold is one of the pet peeves of many real estate investors. This is especially true when the after tax cash flow is turbo charged by useable depreciation. David will give you some food for thought on the subject.

Meanwhile, back at BawldGuy Ranch, don’t ya think it’s about time you get off the dime and Contact me? Since The Boss is on the road for the next coupla weeks, I’m extra available. Heck, with Josh takin’ off ’till Tuesday, I’m even answering the office phone now. Go figure. Have a good one.

This entry was posted on Thursday, August 7th, 2008 at 10:52 pm and is filed under Real Estate Investing, Retirement, Cash Flow, Retirement Income, Investment Lessons, Depreciation, Capital Growth, BawldGuy Axiom. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

9 comments to “Why Analysis Matters — Things Aren’t Always What They Appear To Be”

Robert Coté on August 8th, 2008 at 6:20 am said:

  • I’m with David for the most part. There’s a lot to be said for keeping monthly expenses low even at the expense of tying up capital. Even you want to see a sominex account that is some multiple of monthly expenses right? These days 20% versus 10% has many ways to flow to the bottom line. Not just insurance but getting a lower price. A seller may be inclined to go with your 20% down but lower bid because they know you are more likely to get approved. There’s that make your money on the front end issue again. You’ve covered the quarter point issue but in the current environment I don’t feel comfortable assuming 5% for your leveraged appreciation even if Austin & DFW are bucking the national trends.

    Interesting subject as always.

Joshua on August 8th, 2008 at 6:38 am said:

  • All of you are crazy, am I the only one who listens to audio tapes, reads the books, and watches the videos of the real estate geniuses who buy houses with no money down and get cash back at closing all with bad credit and 30 minutes of their time a week?

    That’s all crazy talk. (*dripping with sarcasm*)

David Shafer on August 8th, 2008 at 9:44 am said:

  • I guess that is what is bothering me with the 10% down version. If the crap hits the fan, you lose that good paying job and rents decrease then you still have a positive cash flow situation with 20% down on your property while using your sominex account for your daily expenses until another job is found. Its just an extra layer of protection. And if all that doesn’t happen you can still feed investments, even other RE investments, with that cash flow.

BawldGuy on August 8th, 2008 at 10:52 am said:

  • Robert and David — We’re not necessarily in disagreement. The income and cash reserves of investors is the deciding factor here.

    An example recently is a couple earning $200,000 between them, with massive cash reserves. I’m sympathetic with your concerns when it comes to job losses and life in general interfering. At some point the investor must make the judgment call.

    My policy has forever been this: If the call is marginal, we either advise no investment whatsoever, or using higher down payments.

    That said, the ‘penalty’ for becoming so conservative you’re constantly guarding against the 50-1 shot, is literally thousands of $$$ monthly in retirement income not received.

    This ‘uber conservatism’ is the main reason those in 401(k)’s have averaged a whopping 4.8% annual return the last 20 years. Look at the penalty THEY’RE about to endure. Either a woefully penurious retirement, or a retirement postponed until they just can’t go to work another day. That’s a penalty.

    I’m Old School, and avoid stoopid risks. But it’s called ‘risk capital’ for a reason. :) Look, I realize this is a subjective, and wholly personal preference, bias, for all of us. But at some point the investor realizes risk reduced too far results in predictably ineffective returns, relatively speaking.

    I advise many client to either use 20% down payments, or to mix it up with 10 AND 20% down. It depends totally on the particular client’s circumstances. This isn’t a ‘one size fits all’ endeavor by anyone’s definition.

    Of course, just like you guys, it’s my professional opinion. It all comes down to comfort level. And frankly, I’ve found folks are more comfortable with retirement incomes that are higher rather than lower. :)

    Thanks again for the other side.

BawldGuy on August 8th, 2008 at 10:55 am said:

  • Josh — Grin

BawldGuy on August 8th, 2008 at 11:34 am said:

  • Robert — The 5% figure was used as an easy number. These days in the growth markets of Texas and Kansas City, we’re tellin’ folks 3-7% is what we think will be the appreciation annually the next few years.

    There are some respected economists who just recently predicted far higher price rises than that.

    Just sayin’… :)

David Shafer on August 8th, 2008 at 11:46 am said:

  • Like I said originally I argue with myself about this (probably unhealthy:-)). Think we are all in agreement on this as being individualized.

Robert Coté on August 8th, 2008 at 3:53 pm said:

  • I’m off in a bit to our premium seats at the Hollywood Bowl for “Les Miserables.” In any year previous this would be a sellout performance. I’ll report back on this uncanny economic indicator.

    Re: 5%. We’ll respectfully disagree on the details. I just think as much as timing is almost pure luck it isn’t entirely luck. A single first year of -5% followed by +5% thereafter and after 10 years 140% versus every year of 5% which is 162%.

    P.S. Can I pretty please just stand downwindish sorta of somathat there K.C BBQ? I won’t tell my Boss if you won’t. I promise not to even lick my fingers.

BawldGuy on August 8th, 2008 at 4:15 pm said:

  • Timing is in large part difficult to gage, which means luck is indeed part of the equation. This is why when answering ‘when are we gonna sell’ I usually say ‘when the market says it’s the right time’. No luck involved there. :)

    Capital growth is always subject to the whims of unplanned road bumps. It’s the nature of the beast. That’s we both agree it’s the long term or big picture that should be used.

    Enjoy Les Miserables. I’d rather waste time watchin’ bad baseball myself. :)

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