What Is Return — Really? Ask 10 People — Get 11 Answers

Posted @ 11:40 pm - Filed under Real Estate Investing, Boise, Cash Flow, Buying Income Property, Dallas, Austin

What’s the ROI? Give me a break. If I ate a cookie every time I’ve been asked that question, I’d weigh 400 pounds. For giggles, ask your buddy exactly how he arrives at the return on an investment. Ask a few people, and as our teachers used to do, get them to show their work.

It could prove interesting. roi

If you’ve found a way to figure out a return on your potential investments, don’t let me talk you out of it. I wrestled with whether I should use, as illustration, a real life APOD (Annual Property Operating Data) with an attached five year after tax cash flow analysis — concluding with the number most folks love to see. You know, any number followed by a % sign. :) In this case, it would be called Internal Rate of Return, or IRR.

Even that high sounding approach is a lie. Cash flows by definition, are not internal, but external. Therefore, they aren’t part of IRR. Yet, they’re integral in the computation process — go figure. (Oops, I made a pun.) We don’t panic though, because there’s a very simple, and thankfully very vanilla extra step we can take to adjust perfectly for that flaw.

What’s not flawed about it? Chris in KC will be happy as a kid eatin’ pulled pork at his favorite BBQ to hear — principal pay down is automatically accounted for in this form of analysis. :)

apples to apples

Here’s what you want included in yer cypherin’ if you want a way to compare many potential investments — when you can’t buy them all.

  • You wanna know you’re comparing apples and well, apples
  • You’ll love it if you can look at before and after tax cash flow
  • Make it almost easy to decide between a Dallas duplex, an Austin condo, or a Boise fourplex
  • Amaze your friends with meaningless double-talk and confusing concepts
  • The last one is just mean, but I threw it in there anyway. :)

    What in the &^*%@# is Internal Rate of Return? The definition is simple.

    It’s that return, which, when discounted back to Day 1, equals your initial investment.

    Back in the day, when I was an expert witness in a couple civil suits a year, I was asked to define IRR almost every time my butt first hit the stand. When my answer was finished in one breath, they got very antsy. :)

    Caveat: Ask 10 guys like me to give IRR’s definition, and you’ll get 11 answers. The cool thing though? They’ll probably all say the same thing in that many ways.

    Again, don’t forget the flaw in IRR. It implied any cash flows are internal, which we know they are not. We know that because the cash flow went from the investment to our Levi’s, straight to Starbucks.

    Let’s say your after tax IRR is 12%. If you have an annual cash flow of $5,000 — is it earning 12% a year? After tax? Of course it isn’t. desert mirage

    Hence, the flaw. It’s like a desert mirage — only it’s the return that’s not there. :)

    It’s easily corrected though. Just assign the cash flows with what we call a ’safe rate’. (after tax) If you can take your cash flow and obtain 4% at your bank, you now can eliminate IRR’s ‘lie’ about cash flows. If we know your marginal income tax rate fed/state combined, is 35%, we can now apply an after tax rate of return to your cash flows of 2.6%.

    We now initiate what’s called MIRR, M = Modified. If the analysis calls for a five year hold, we take each year’s cash flow and bring it forward at the 2.6% rate for the appropriate number of years. The last year becomes a huge cash flow, because we ’sold’ it that year — therefore all the sales proceeds land in the last year. Duh

    An MIRR looks as easy as pie on a chart. It might read $XXX in year ‘0′ — then 0’s for every year until the sale year, the end of year five in this example. Year five is now $XXXX, which allows us to do a simple ’solving’ type analysis.

    solve for x

    Initial investment = Present Value After tax sales proceeds = Future Value Time = Five Years

    Just solve for ‘X’ — ‘Interest’ or ‘Return’ or Whatever the heck it pleases you to call it. :)

    What the Modified Internal Rate of Return offers us as investors, is the ability to compare just about any investment to any other investment. Even stocks to real estate to bonds.

    Apples and apples.

    Any tool allowing us to compare vastly different properties as if they’re clones, (figuratively speaking) is pretty dang valuable. IRR & MIRR aren’t by any stretch of the imagination the be all end all of investment analysis — but I like ‘em.

    This entry was posted on Wednesday, November 14th, 2007 at 11:40 pm and is filed under Real Estate Investing, Boise, Cash Flow, Buying Income Property, Dallas, Austin. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

    4 comments to “What Is Return — Really? Ask 10 People — Get 11 Answers”

    Chris Lengquist on November 15th, 2007 at 7:42 am said:

    • Okay…here we go. First, yes, I do love my principal reduction. Love it. In fact, I roll on the floor each time someone helps me pay down a debt with my name on it. Are there times when it’s best to go IO? Sure. But from a psychological point of view, I love my PR!!!! :)

      Measuring returns is a hoot. Not one single client of mine has the same formula as the next. I like to measure equity return. Each and every year. I compare on that basis. Others have their own math. Who is right?

      Well, depends on what they are after. And it depends on their accepted “fluctuation” margins. I don’t argue people out of their evaluation methods. I just use them and compare them to mine. Between the two people can make an intelligent decision.

      (By the way, I’ll call. I’m working our conversation around a couple plans. No later than Friday. I promise.)

    Jeff Brown on November 15th, 2007 at 8:04 am said:

    • Hey Chris — I love principal reduction whenever I can get it. As you imply, sometimes it’s not possible.

      I’ve had many agents tell me with a straight face, tax savings aren’t part of their return analysis. I told one just the other day, if she didn’t want the tax savings, “Here are my wiring instructions.”

      She wasn’t amused. :)

      Talk to you soon.

    Robert Coté on November 15th, 2007 at 9:55 am said:

    • Ask 10 people and get 11 answers? Heck I can rattle off a round dozen all by myself. I too have a special place in my dark shriveled blackened landlord’s heart for principle reduction. Owning, really owning, capital assets is a form of diversification. Having no physical property equity and all your wealth in dollar denominated deposits and debts is every bit as unbalanced as owning outright a fully depreciated San Diego fourplex rental at 250x receipts. Both represent an over-concentration of exposure.

      Now, what’s this about a “safe” 4% on a FDIC insured CD? Several double tax free munis are going begging at 5.4% or near 9% equivalent. Anyone following the California economy and/or budgets has got to be thinking that return is ready to jump as the ratings fall (sans insurance) and supply floods the market.

    Jeff Brown on November 15th, 2007 at 6:37 pm said:

    • Robert — Now, what’s this about a “safe” 4% on a FDIC insured CD?

      The 4% was merely a figure used to make the point. One of the assumptions of the cash flow analysis, which surely doesn’t have to be adhered to, is keeping the received cash flows liquid.

      The point was the cash flows don’t yield the return the rest of the investment does, because they’re out of the investment, and therefore not ‘internal’ any longer.

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