Real Time Example — Why You Wanna Do Things On Purpose

Posted @ 9:57 pm - Filed under 401(k)'s & IRA's, BawldGuy Axiom, EIUL, Purposeful Planning, Retirement

For nearly two years now, I’ve been doin’ my best to convince folks to take a step back when it comes to job related retirement plans, mostly 401k’s. Not content with criticizing them generally, then with specificity, I also offered what I believe to be an incredibly superior alternative — the EIUL. (Equity Indexed Universal Life — it’s an investment grade insurance policy.)

For the record, the photos in this post have as much to do with its substance as most dollars invested in 401k’s above the employer’s match do with a happy retirement. (Dude, that was harsh.)

Hoppin' a Freight Train

The primary exception to my advice to abandon 401k’s, is employer matching. To the extent your company is puttin’ in a buck for every buck you are, keep doin’ it. Duh. ‘Course even then yer gonna face some daunting crappola (technical investment term), when you enter the pre-retirement and retirement phases of your life. 100% of that crappola will be income tax related — and no, it won’t be taxpayer friendly. Still, having your savings doubled before you even get started lookin’ for return ain’t bad.

Before continuing, be clear on something near and dear to my heart. We make nothin’, zero, nada, zilch when our clients redirect some of their dollars from 401k’s to EIUL’s. Not even a courtesy referral fee of any kind. We don’t want it. Then why do we do it, when we could just as easily advise folks to invest that redirected capital into real estate?

That one’s easy — ‘cuz it’s the right thing to do. Duh.

I’ve met/talked with far too many regular folks in the last several years who’ve lost 30-50% of their nest eggs in the stock market. Up ’till very recently, they lost it in NASDAQ. Wanna know what it’s like to lose six, or in some cases seven figures in what amounts to the blink of an eye? Exactly, me neither. Now it’s happened again. The DOW, almost faster than we could watch it happening in real time, goes from 14,000+ to 12,000+ to around 8,000 points give or take.

For those folks who continued giving more than the amount matched dollar for dollar by their employers, their nest egg has been devastated. My heart goes out to them. So many of them have seen their potential retirement income shrink to very discouraging levels. It’s likely many more have even seen their planned date of retirement postponed. If you’re 40 or 50-something, and you just lost 1/3 of your 401k, it’s gotta be hard to even begin to think about the inevitable consequences of such a development.

BawldGuy Axiom: It’s not low returns that scuttle good plans. It’s the time it takes, usually measured in years, to make up for significant losses. Those lost years can never be replaced.

SLR McLaren

Can the investor eliminate losses from their real estate investment portfolio? For those who’re laughin’ at that question, thank you from the bottom of my BawldHeart. Nobody, over the long haul, can avoid the occasional loss. I speak from painful experience. But when there are alternatives that allow the avoidance of loss? At least explore them. Duh

If for the last decade, the average taxpayer with a 401k had only contributed the amount matched dollar for dollar by their employer, the losses incurred this month would’ve been irritating, but still left them in positive territory. Since the average taxpayer has made less than 5% annually on their Wall Street ventures the last 20 years, the dollars invested over the employer match haven’t exactly set the world on fire. Add to that the huge losses inflicted this month, and you’ve discovered why I’ve been advising folks to stop the practice.

Let’s do a ‘what if’ here. Assume a taxpayer is contributing $10,000 yearly to their 401k.

If the taxpayer makes $100,000/yr and their employer matches up to 3% of that figure, our advice would be to put $3,000 in the company’s plan and the other $7,000 into an EIUL. In those 10 years your 401k would’ve grown to roughly $75,000 — until that is, this month. It’s now worth, giving you the benefit of the doubt, about $55,000 or so. On the other hand…

The EIUL money? In the same 10 years it grew to roughly $95,000 — again, until this year. Then what happened, you ask innocently? This year it grew by only a paltry 2%. So at the end of this year, that $95,000 grew to $96,900. You may be underwhelmed, but don’t come to any conclusions yet.

Where would the taxpayer be if they’d kept on puttin’ the entire $10,000 into their 401k? After 10 years they’d have about $126,000 give or take. Until this month. Now they’d have around $90,000.

Insert drum roll here.

The way most taxpayers do it — they now have about $90,000 in their 401k after 10 years.

My way? $55,000 in 401k + $96,900 in EIUL = $151,900. Choose, go ahead, take yer time. No rush.

I dunno. Thinkin’ maybe I was on to something when I begged folks the last couple years to end their participation in Uncle Sam’s own Purposeful Plan for retirement. The government has been baiting its citizens with nickels and dimes in yearly tax savings early on, while taking dollars in taxes from them when they begin drawing money from their 401k’s in retirement.

It’s worked incredibly well — for the government.

This post is in response to several private requests. They wanted to see a more or less real time example of how the two approaches compared. I hope this helped, or at least cleared up some of your questions.

Sunrise!

Surely if you’ve been hurt by this sudden crash in the stock markets, the horse is not only outa the barn, but no doubt already in the next county by now. Given that reality, let’s look to the next 10, 20, 30 years, OK? I’m not givin’ you advice here on your non-real estate investments, though it’s my clear intention here to show you a potentially better way. Though I don’t shy from giving real estate investment advice, I’d rather send you to an EIUL expert.

If what I’ve been sayin’ here resonates with you, contacting David Shafer should be your first move. I told him I was gonna link to him, so he’s more or less ready for ya. :)

Getting started on your own Purposeful Plan is begun by contacting me to begin an ongoing conversation about what you want your retirement to look like. Have a good one.

This entry was posted on Monday, October 20th, 2008 at 9:57 pm and is filed under 401(k)'s & IRA's, BawldGuy Axiom, EIUL, Purposeful Planning, Retirement. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

12 comments to “Real Time Example — Why You Wanna Do Things On Purpose”

David Shafer on October 21st, 2008 at 6:13 am said:

  • Thanks, Bawld Guy. For those of you interested, scroll down to the Oct 11 post on EIULs at my blog site linked in the post. Read the comments, they are interesting and include a EIUL critic. I also have several other EIUL posts linked at the right under life insurance. Should only take 15 minutes to read them all and will give you a great background on EIULs and who owns them and why. Enjoy the reading!

David on October 21st, 2008 at 6:59 am said:

  • “Bawld Guy”, I’ve read some of your articles over on bloodhound reality. It seems like you do a 180 here on your personal blog about 401(k)s? Over there, you say “stay away”, even with an employer match. Here you say “contribute up to the employer match”.

    Your article prompted me to do some of my own math and I discovered that – given the assumption by the insurance company, the EIUL wins out over an employer match of 100% up to 6% of an employee’s income as long as the employee has a tax rate over 25% combined State and Federal and assuming net rates of return on both products after fees of 7%.

    Honestly, it’s a rare find to see someone in their 401(k) that makes that after fees. I’ve actually written an article for my clients to demonstrate the dollars and cents as it were.

Scooter on October 21st, 2008 at 9:34 am said:

  • I agree that EIUL’s make sense as part of a balanced retirement plan along with real estate, 401ks and Roth IRAs. However, I have a question about the example above. You assumed that $7 k was put into EIUL versus the 401K. However, the 401k contribution was pre-tax. Can I contribute to an EIUL pre-tax ? If not, you must discount the amount available to invest in EIUL by some percentage to make an aplles to apples comparison.

    For someone in the 28% Federal and 9.3% state (CA) marginal tax bracket, this reduces the amount available for investment in EIUL down to about $4400 in the example.

    This makes the comparison much closer (I come up with something like 62K from the EIUL accounting for after tax contributions), so the difference is closer but still favors EIUL in the example.

BawldGuy on October 21st, 2008 at 10:04 am said:

  • Scooter — What you say is correct — at least as far as it goes. The fundamental problem is what I alluded to in the post. Uncle Sam’s bait. It’s what you’re making your point with.

    Here’s the rub.

    That $7,000 saves the taxpayer the money you said. In CA it saves him roughly $2,500 or so. If he puts in the whole $10,000 a year, then as he ages and earns more, increases that to say, $15,000, he’ll likely end up with around $1.5 Million at retirement.

    If he then switches from the historically poorly performing mutual funds to income instruments, he’ll be able to generate an annual retirement income of give or take, $100,000. Using your marginal rates, it would take at most, around 4-6 years for him to pay back all the so called ‘tax savings’ of the 30 years it took to get there.

    The income from his EIUL on the other hand, will be tax free. Furthermore, when he dies, his heirs will not pay a dime in death tax, compared to virtually dividing his 401k in half via that tax.

    Also, there’s no tax or penalty for taking money out for any reason from the EIUL, not to mention the fact it doesn’t have to be paid back if it’s been funded properly. The idea Scooter, is to hit retirement with the biggest NET income, (after tax) as possible. The 401k is the highest taxed approach to take.

    So, I ask again — Why would anyone do that on purpose?

    I think Dave will have a far more detailed answer than this one, as he’s the expert. Dave?

BawldGuy on October 21st, 2008 at 10:51 am said:

  • David — Busted! You are correctamundo on my 180. I tired of those who wouldn’t do the numbers. Ironically, Dave Shafer has taken the same stance, though possibly for different reasons. I’ll let him speak for himself.

    The tax advantages EIUL’s have over 401k’s are so monumental as to be laughable.

    Mr. Shafer?

Scooter on October 21st, 2008 at 11:08 am said:

  • Bawld Guy –

    I agree that it’s after tax income at retirement that counts. So one needs to account for taxes on both ends in this example.

    Since it requires about $25K more over 10 years to get the 151K than the 90K, it needs to be accounted for. This still favors the EIUL in your example, but more like a 25-30K advantage than a 60K advantage.

    Now, about that tax free income from the EIULs … that would give them a huge advantage over 401ks which are taxed at income rates (as opposed to capital gains rates).

BawldGuy on October 21st, 2008 at 11:14 am said:

  • Scooter — I tilted the numbers in favor of 401k’s and slightly against EIUL’s. I’ll stick with my numbers when applied in the real world with what both are really returning.

    You point though, is well taken. It’s just that in the real world the difference is even larger than you and I are saying.

    Thanks for hanging around, and please don’t be a stranger.

David Shafer on October 21st, 2008 at 12:14 pm said:

  • Here’s my thinking on taking the company match.
    1st, like Bawld Guy I get tired of dealing with that battle. Instead I have learned to fight the battles you can win and wait for an opportunity to win the war. Which brings me to the second point. In the current environment, most workers change jobs more than every 10 years (actually it is like every five years on average). Each time there is a job change you have an opportunity to transfer you 401K to an IRA. This opportunity means you can either transfer it into a brokerage IRA or even a self directed IRA and redirect the funds to stocks, low expense mutual funds or to real estate. These additional options allow a fruitful conversation to happen and perhaps even a purposeful plan. Once you have options to use leverage or more conservatively to employ long term value investing or even to purchase Berkshire Hathaway (not that I am telling anyone what stocks to own!) with its 21% 44 year rate of return! The point being once YOU have control of your funds you can become an active investor and improve the rate of return to actually build wealth.

    Unfortunately you are still going to have to pay the taxman, but at least you have real money in which to pay!

    Hopefully, you also funded a EIUL and real estate outside of the IRA, which allows you to skip the taxman for access to the majority of your wealth. If you are getting $100,000 of income from your IRA which is taxed and have a stream of income available from your real estate and EIUL that is even larger you are still in good shape tax wise.

    However, David is right with the math of 401Ks and the match at higher than 25% tax rates. You are better off with your money outside of any tax deferred wrapper. You can even roll it out of 401ks paying the 10% penalty and the income tax and do better with it! I admit I don’t like anyone (even the government) telling me when and how I can invest/access my money, so for me a little pain now is well worth that freedom down the line!

BawldGuy on October 21st, 2008 at 12:38 pm said:

  • And the congregation said, Amen! Thanks Dave.

The Verdict Is In | BloodhoundBlog: National real estate marketing and technology blog | Realtors and real estate, mortgages, lending, investments on October 21st, 2008 at 8:14 pm said:

  • [...] Then why do we advise many of them to separate some of the real estate investment capital from their pile in order to acquire an EIUL? Simple — it’s the right thing to do. Yesterday I posted what happened to those who refused to believe me last year. [...]

Joshua on October 21st, 2008 at 9:06 pm said:

  • I think Jeff and David should go into business together and give the one-two punch for us so we don’t have to worry about it.

BawldGuy on October 21st, 2008 at 10:32 pm said:

  • We do make a pretty good team, don’t we?

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